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what time to break fast when up in the sky

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what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by shahada on Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:52 pm

asalam
i need a bit of help
next week im traveling to london by plane
my flight is between 730 and 830
magrib will be in dublin at 830 and in london at 805
so im confused at to what time to break my fast at
any ideas??

by the way im aware that i can opt out of fasting when traveling but i would prefare to do it
thanks s
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by Clare on Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:00 am

Salam alaikom sisters

Shahada, it is not just an option not to fast when travelling. It is mustahabb. It is Sunnah. Allah grants this mercy to his slaves. Who are you to throw it back in His face? Sorry if that sounds harsh. It is my sincere advice to you is to accept this gift from Allah and not to fast.

I read an article with proof about this recently but I've been reading so much I'm not sure where. Insha Allah I'll find the evidence to back up what I'm saying but maybe someone will beat me to it?

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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by muslimah-mom-friend on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:03 am

"Which is better – breaking one’s fast when travelling or fasting?"

If a person travels in Ramadaan and he is fasting, is it better for him not to fast, or should he continue fasting?


Praise be to Allaah.

The four Imams and the majority of the Sahaabah and Taabi’een were of the view that fasting whilst traveling is permissible and is correct and valid. If the traveler fasts, it counts and he does not have to make it up. See al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, vol. 28, p. 73

As to what is better, that depends:

1 – If fasting and not fasting are the same, in the sense that fasting does not affect him, then in this case fasting is better, because of the following evidence:

(a) It was narrated that Abu’l-Darda’ (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “We went out with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) [on a journey] during the month of Ramadaan when it was intensely hot, until one of us would put his hand on his head because of the intense heat, and no one among us was fasting apart from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Rawaahah.” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1945; Muslim, no. 1122).

(b) Fasting whilst traveling means that one fulfils one's duty more quickly, because making it up later means delaying it, but fasting in Ramadaan means doing it sooner.

(c) It is usually easier for the one who has this duty, because fasting and breaking the fast with the people is easier than starting to fast all over again.

(d) It makes the most of a blessed time, namely Ramadaan, for Ramadaan is better than other times, because it is the time when fasting is obligatory. Based on this evidence the view of al-Shafaa’i, which is that fasting is better in the case of one for whom fasting and not fasting are the same, is most likely to be correct.

2 – If not fasting is easier for him, then in this case we say that not fasting (when traveling) is better. If something will give him hardship, then in his case fasting becomes makrooh, because doing something that causes hardship when there is a concession indicates that one is spurning a concession granted by Allaah.

3 – If it will case unbearable difficulty, then in this case it becomes haraam for him to fast. The evidence for that is the report narrated by Muslim from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with them), that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out to Makkah in the year of the Conquest in Ramadaan, and fasted until he reached Kuraa’ al-Ghameem. The people were fasting, but he called for a cup of water and lifted it up so that the people could see it, then he drank it. After that, he was told that some of the people had continued to fast. He said, “Those are the disobedient, those are the disobedient.” According to another report, he was told, “The people are finding it hard to fast, and they are waiting to see what you will do.” So he called for a cup of water after ‘Asr. (1114) So he described those who fasted even though it was very difficult as being disobedient. See al-Sharh al-Mumti’ by Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him), vol. 6, p. 355).

Al-Nawawi and al-Kamaal ibn al-Humaam said: the ahaadeeth which indicate that it is better not to fast are to be interpreted as referring to those who will be harmed by fasting; in some of them this is clearly stated, so they must be interpreted in this manner, so as to reconcile between the ahaadeeth. That is better than neglecting some of them or claiming that they have been abrogated, without definitive evidence to that effect. In the case of those for whom fasting and not fasting are the same, they quoted as evidence the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her), that Hamzah ibn ‘Amr al-Aslami (may Allaah be pleased with him) said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Should I fast whilst traveling?” – and he used to fast a lot. He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: “if you want to, then fast; if you don’t want to, then do not fast.” (Agreed upon).

Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, vol. 28, p. 73.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/20165

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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by muslimah-mom-friend on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 am

The meaning of the hadeeth “It is not an act of righteousness to fast when travelling”

I know that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “It is not an act of righteousness to fast when travelling.” Does this mean that it is not right for a traveller to fast?


Praise be to Allaah.

Firstly, we have already stated in the answer to question no. 20165 [quoted above - mmf] that fasting whilst travelling may fall into three categories:

1 – If fasting does not cause hardship, then it is preferable to fast.

2 – If fasting causes hardship, then it is better to break one's fast.

3 – If a person will be harmed by fasting or there is the fear that he may die, then fasting becomes haraam and he has to break his fast.

We have also quoted evidence from the Sunnah concerning that.

Secondly: This hadeeth to which the questioner refers applies in the third case. If we know the context of the hadeeth and the reason why it was narrated, that will become clear.

Al-Bukhaari (1946) and Muslim (1115) narrated from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was on a journey, and he saw a crowd of people and a man who was being shaded. He said, “What is this?” They said, “He is fasting.” He said, “It is not an act of righteousness to fast whilst travelling.”

Al-Sindi said:

The words “It is not an act of righteousness …” mean it is not an act of obedience or worship.

Al-Nawawi said:

What it means is that if it is too difficult for you to fast and you fear that it may harm you. The context of the hadeeth indicates that this is how it should be interpreted… The hadeeth has to do with one who may be harmed by fasting.

This is the way in which al-Bukhaari understood the hadeeth. He introduced it by saying:

“Chapter: The words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) to one who was being shaded when the heat was too intense, ‘It is not an act of righteousness to fast when travelling.’”

Al-Haafiz said:

By this introduction he indicated that the reason why the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said “It is not an act of righteousness to fast when travelling” is the hardship that was mentioned.

Ibn al-Qayyim said in Tahdheeb al-Sunan:

With regard to the words “It is not an act of righteousness to fast when travelling”, this was said concerning a specific person whom the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) saw being shaded and fasting had exhausted him. So he said these words, i.e., it is not an act of righteousness for a person to exhaust himself to this extent when Allaah has allowed him not to fast.

Thirdly:

This hadeeth cannot be interpreted in general terms to mean that it is not an act of righteousness to fast on any type of journey, because it is proven that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to fast when travelling.

Hence al-Khattaabi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

These words were spoken for a reason, so they are limited to those who are in a similar situation. It is as if he said that it is not an act of righteousness for a traveller to fast if fasting will lead to him suffering in such a manner. And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) fasted on his journey in the year of the Conquest.

From ‘Awn al-Ma’bood.

And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A
http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/12481

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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by muslimah-mom-friend on Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:12 am

Wa aleikum as-salaam Sister Shahada,

About breaking your fast while flying, in short, you should not break your fast until the sun sets in the place where you are. If you are on board the plane and you can see the sun, it is not permissible for you to break your fast until the sun sets (even if the sun has already set for the people of the land which you are flying over in the plane). Here's fatawa about breaking your fast while flying:

In Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah (10/296) it says:

The scholars are unanimously agreed that the fast lasts from dawn until sunset, and each person who fasts is subject to the rulings on the place where he is, whether he is on the ground or in a plane that is in the air.

In another fatwa (10/295):

The basic principle is that with regard to starting to fast, breaking the fast and the time of prayer, each person is subject to the ruling of the land he is in or the air through which he is travelling. If the plane he is in takes off a few minutes before sunset and the day continues for him, it is not permissible for him to break his fast or to pray Maghrib until the sun sets from the point of view of the air through which he is travelling, even if he passes through the airspace of a city whose people have broken the fast and prayed Maghrib, so long as he can see the sun.

Based on this, whoever starts to fast then travels in a plane towards the west should break his fast when the sun sets in the place where he is. Similarly if he travels by plane towards the east and wants to fast, he should not break his fast until the sun sets in the place where he is. The time difference does not matter.

(http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/38007)

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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by muslimah-mom-friend on Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:01 am

I just checked my regular email address and there was an email waiting for me to read that had a hadith on this topic:

Sahih al Bukhari Hadith

Volume # 3
Hadith # 168

Narrator: Anas bin Malik (RadiAllahu Anhu)

Do not criticize each other for fasting or not fasting

"We used to travel with the Prophet (SalAllahu A'layhe Wassalam) and neither did the fasting persons criticize those who were not fasting, nor did those who were not fasting criticize the fasting ones."

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The Summary for Shahada - short post

Post by Clare on Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:26 am

Asalam alaikom sisters

Wow. MMF Thanks for all that daleel. I didn't go into it because Shahada doesn't like long post and will skip things if they are too long. Very Happy

I'm sure you all can see why this sister has gold member status!

Shahada the summary is it depends on whether you find fasting the same as not fasting or whether you find it difficult to fast. I was assuming you would find it difficult to fast because I would find it difficult. I find just getting though the day and doing my ibadah is rough going when I'm fasting. Also, fasting makes me sick and I am supposed to take my meds in the daytime but have been skipping some and stretching out others - you wouldn't believe the number of different meds I'm on.

So in light of the above, if it is easy for you to fast then go ahead but if it is hard for you to fast, then fasting while travelling is actually haram.
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by shahada on Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:35 pm

jazakalahkheir mmf ,great stuff and inshalah of use to us all
maybe c should stick it in the library
so bacically i look out the window and if the sun has gone down i eat
clare getting a plane to england is probally less of a journey than from cavan to dublin,its only an hour so no big deal just like getting a bus somewhere
and if i dont do it now i will have to make it up later so i would prefere to get it done now as its harder later
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by butterfly on Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:19 am

I don't think it's haram to fast when travelling, I know there's a hadith that you don't have to but... e.g if you were popping over to the UK and you felt capable of fasting- Would that not be o.k?

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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by shahada on Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:24 am

Hamzah ibn ‘Amr al-Aslami (may Allaah be pleased with him) said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Should I fast whilst traveling?” – and he used to fast a lot. He (the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)) said: “if you want to, then fast; if you don’t want to, then do not fast.” (Agreed upon)
Al-Mawsoo’ah al-Fiqhiyyah, vol. 28, p. 73.
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by Clare on Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:34 am

Salams sisters

Shahada you made me laugh! Loud Laughter Your are completely right. It is a shorter journey in terms of travelling time than a trip to Cavan! I never thought of it as a bus ride in the sky.

Butterfly - it is only haram to fast when travelling if fasting is DIFFICULT for you.. I am finding it really difficult this year - not the days when I am doing the fast but being so physically sick from the anxiety of trying to do all I should be doing. I couldn't work today and dh is not impressed. The last time that i had such severe physical symptoms was on Hajj. I was bent double with the pain yesterday. I'm taking heavy (permitted) doses of my meds. Anti-anxiety (xabax), Prozac, Seroquel, clonactil, Motilium and phenergan. All I can comfortably eat is ice cream. I can't even drink a cup of tea or coffee.If I could just get ride of the spasms,the gas and the back pain i would pick up and soldier on. Please make dua' for me. This happens every year but hasn't been so bad since i did hajj. I ended up in mental hospital over there. Interestingly part of my treatment was to recite tasbeeh. But I'm going completly off topic. For give me and make du'a for me please
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by shahada on Thu Aug 19, 2010 12:41 am

sorry your not feeling well
im not the best myself
having bad menstral cramps that are crippiling me
was driving home today and the pain was bad that i could not sit down propperly and was sitting sideways when driving
so just letting you know that im feeling your pain a bit.inshalah make dua for me too
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by Clare on Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:13 am

Insha Allah you will recover soon. If is related to menstruation then I'm sure you have an idea of when it will end.

The trouble with anxieity related pain, spasms, nausea etc is that I don't know how to make it stop. Ususlly a couple of days in bed doped out on my meds does the trick but I can't affortd to lose the time in Ramadan. Your've lived with me for a week or 2 whan I was unwell and I suppose you remember the night you had to leave the dormitory with you baby and go sleep in the sitting aread. I think I need a break from everything but don't want to miss ANYTHING in Ramadan. I remind myself of my nceice Shauna - she tries too hear and tense up so she doen'st do as well as her cousins at the hoola hoop. If she relaxed more she't get it to spin for longer. Any way enough waffle an ideal talk.

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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by shahada on Thu Aug 19, 2010 2:09 pm

omg did i really do that sorry i forgotten,maybe i didnt want to disturb you with baby crying! sorry

as for menstratin and knowing when it will end i also know that i will only have 3 weeks and then ill be aflicted again but im sure yours is worse inshalah you get some reliefe,alhamdula im ok today so if you did that dua mashalah it worked
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Re: what time to break fast when up in the sky

Post by Clare on Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:23 pm

re our Hajj Sleep Basketball Loud Laughter

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